
Another week, another company killing off a giant product after spending millions of dollars and years developing. Back in 2009 Cisco bought Pure Digital Technology’s Flip. Gadget fans and makers were puzzled by this; phones were just about good enough to start beating the Flip. Now, it’s heading for the landfill.
Some companies fail, some kill off product lines that are not profitable, but in the end, where does all the knowledge go? Nowhere, usually. In a world of disposable everything, is it time that we demand companies do what’s good for humankind in addition to the bottom line?
If companies are going to just kill something off, why not open source it? Some companies do just that, and others, like Nokia, will promise open source (Symbian, dead product) and then quickly reverse itself, locking it up. Pictured above, a Nokia coffin.
In this article I’m going to share my collection of products that no longer exist but should (or could) have been released as open source projects. Part of the goal is for you to post the ones you’d like to see “open sourced” as well. My list includes some familiar favorites, like the Sony humanoid robots, to some old timers like Ricochet wireless cards.
To kick it off, I’m going to start with things that beat humans. I’m not sure if there needs to be a new law of robotics for creators, but I’d like to see one that says, “If you, the creator, make something to beat or mimic humans, you need to show your work at some point.” Seems fair.
Sony AIBO & Sony QRIO
The first on my list are Sony’s robotic pets and humanoid efforts.

AIBO (Artificial Intelligence roBOt, homonymous with “pal” or “partner” in Japanese) was one of several types of robotic pets designed and manufactured by Sony. There have been several different models since their introduction on May 11, 1999 although AIBO was discontinued in 2006. AIBO is able to walk, “see” its environment via camera and recognize spoken commands in Spanish and English. AIBO robotic pets are considered to be autonomous robots since they are able to learn and mature based on external stimuli from their owner, their environment and from other AIBOs. Artist Hajime Sorayama created the initial designs for the AIBO. The original designs are part of the permanent collections of MoMA and the Smithsonian Institution. The design won Sony and its designer Sorayama the highest design award that may be conferred by Japan. On January 26, 2006 Sony announced that it would discontinue AIBO and several other products as of March, 2006 in Sony’s effort to make the company more profitable.
Around 120,000 AIBOs were sold, and while Sony threatened some of the early AIBO modders, these robotic pets eventually became the symbol for many of what robotics could be. The AIBO was amazing; I had a couple of them, and their servos to their vision systems are what roboticists work on for years and rarely get right. It’s a hard problem, and Sony did good work. But now it’s gone.
Next up, the QRIO…
QRIO (“Quest for cuRIOsity”, originally named Sony Dream Robot or SDR) was to be a bipedal humanoid entertainment robot developed and marketed (but never sold) by Sony to follow up on the success of its AIBO toy. QRIO stood approximately 0.6 m (2 feet) tall and weighed 7.3 kg (16 pounds). QRIO’s slogan was “Makes life fun, makes you happy!”
On January 26, 2006, on the same day as it announced its discontinuation of AIBO and other products, Sony announced that it would stop development of QRIO. Before it was canceled, QRIO was reported to be going through numerous development, testing and scalability phases, with the intent of becoming commercially available within three or four years.
QRIO is capable of voice and face recognition, making it able to remember people as well as their likes and dislikes. A video on QRIO’s website shows it speaking with several children. QRIO can run at 23 cm/s, and is credited in Guinness World Records (2005 edition) as being the first bipedal robot capable of running (which it defines as moving while both legs are off the ground at the same time). The 4th generation QRIO’s internal battery lasts about 1 hour.
I was able to see these little bots in person while working with Sony in Japan (video above); they’re amazing — there’s nothing like them. If Sony wants to develop something that either mimics or competes with humans, at the minimum they should release the work if they kill it off. Think of the advances in robotics we’d have — from prosthetics to AI, both the QRIO and AIBO represent decades of research — open sourcing it, working with universities or plain giving it away is what feels “right.” At the time of this writing, Sony is responsible for the largest ID theft in history — over 75 million users compromised over the PlayStation Network — it will take a long time for Sony to rebuild the trust and loyalty of their customers. Some random acts of kindness would help; donating their robotics research is just one of the many things available.
IBM’s Deep Blue
OK, so it’s debatable if this is a “product,” but I think it counts. IBM made a chess computer to beat humans, but it’s still unclear to many if it actually worked. It didn’t “fail” or go out of business, but it beat humans, one of our best chess players, so I think it counts.

On May 11, 1997, the machine won a six-game match by two wins to one with three draws against world champion Garry Kasparov. Kasparov accused IBM of cheating and demanded a rematch, but IBM refused and dismantled Deep Blue.
IBM is really active in the open source community; perhaps we could collectively request access to the Deep Blue source to not only see how it beat our best human chess player at the time, but to run our own versions of Deep Blue (it could run on a modern computer for sure by now). It might also clear up a lot of questions on how exactly IBM beat Kasparov too. I’d like to see kids build Deep Blues with Legos. Deep Blue was more than 10 years ago, c’mon!
At a previous Maker Faire, a retired IBM engineer told me that Deep Blue was actually sold to Lenovo (China) and it’s in their executive lounge. I’m pretty sure he was just kidding, but really, who knows.
Next up are products over the last few years that either didn’t make it or were killed off.

Ricochet Wireless
Imagine being able to get online anywhere, at broadband speeds — well, we can all do that now, but in 1999 Ricochet Wireless was the way to go.
Ricochet was one of the pioneering wireless Internet services in the United States, before Wi-Fi, 3G, and other broadband technologies were available to the general public. It was offered by Metricom Incorporated, which shut down in 2001. Ricochet’s main draw, however, was that it was wireless; at the time, there were almost no other options for a wireless Internet connection. Cellular phones were not as prevalent as today, and wireless data services such as GPRS had not yet been deployed on US cellular networks. It was possible to use specially adapted dialup modems over cellular connections, but this was slow (typically topping out at 9.6 kbit/s), expensive (per-minute charges applied), and often flaky. In contrast, Ricochet was fast, flat-rate, and very reliable.
The company’s assets were sold off a few times, and it was turned on and off in early 2000s again, but eventually it just died off. While it’s not useful now, imagine if it was open sourced around 2001. Perhaps we’d all be using a slightly different standard, or ways to get online would be cheaper and faster, or maybe we all wouldn’t be stuck with crappy service from the 2-3 remaining big cell carriers. I loved paying $29 a month in 1999 for better access than I have now.
Potenco’s Pull-Cord Generator (PCG)
This one is a little tricky — they are/were a startup — I know some of the founders, but I’m pretty sure they’ve all moved on, and last I heard (a few years ago) the assets were being shopped around. I can’t think of a better thing to consider open sourcing.

PCG1: Personal Device Charger. Introducing the PCG1, a human-powered generator that creates and stores hours of charge for portable electronics. The PCG1 provides energy independence for people traveling, on the go, in the wild, or in an emergency. The PCG1 is sure to bring life to your tired electronics. 1 minute of pulling the PCG1 provides: 20 minutes of talk time on a mobile phone, 6 hrs of music on an MP3 player, 45 min of play on a Nintendo DS lite.
This is a complicated problem — it might be unsolvable until material sciences catch up, but at this point it’s been 5 years since Potenco was in just about every “green” gadget story, so maybe it’s time to release it to the open hardware community. Although I’ve played with the device and knew of the few folks involved, I didn’t get one (I really wanted one). I selfishly want one of these gadgets, so I put it on my list.
Palm
Remember when everyone had a Palm? Me too. Well those days are over — phones caught up and became the portable organizers and app runners. My favorite was the Palm V — low power, low cost — it’s a mini computer that is still used by makers for things like bike computers. Palm was bought by HP, so no more Palm for the most part.

Palm handhelds are Personal Digital Assistants (PDAs) which run the Palm OS. Palm devices have evolved from handhelds to smartphones which run Palm OS, WebOS, and Windows Mobile. This page describes the range of Palm devices, from the first generation of Palm machines known as the Pilot through to the latest models currently produced by Palm, Inc including their new Palm Pre line of consumer smartphones. The Palm Treo 700p is one of many smartphones produced that combines Palm PDA functions with a cell phone, allowing for built-in voice and data.
On 28 April 2010 it was announced that Hewlett-Packard would acquire Palm for around US$1.2bn. Although HP kept the Palm brand initially, all new PDA devices announced at press announcement on February 9, 2011, were branded as HP devices, not as Palm devices.
The old Palms (include the US Robotics, 3Com models) aren’t useful for anyone now as a commercial product, but their applications for embedded electronics, low-cost computers for developing nations are endless. If the Palm OS was open sourced, the OLPC could have had a running start, and perhaps the price point could have been under $100 from the start?
Microsoft’s SPOT Watches and Technology

The SPOT tech is almost the same as Palm in my mind — lots of smart work, but now it’s all gone. It was really interesting (at the time) to use FM signals to deliver “ambient” information. We’re starting to see some “smart watches” come out now from folks, like the inPulse. But imagine having access to millions spent in R&D now.
Smart Personal Object Technology (SPOT) was developed by Microsoft to personalize household electronics and other everyday devices, through “smart” software and hardware that would make their uses more versatile. The SPOT technology used MSN Direct network services, delivered across the United States and Canada based on FM radio broadcast signals in about 100 metropolitan areas. The service cost $59 a year. Smart wristwatches were the first SPOT-based application, introduced in 2004 from watchmakers Fossil, Inc. and Suunto, with later models from Tissot and Swatch. SPOT technologies also included coffeemakers by Melitta. It was also planned to use SPOT technology in alarm clocks and weather stations. In 2008, the SPOT technology was applied to traffic and map updates for GPS units for Garmin. While SPOT had a higher local bandwidth than either competing service (RDS or Sirius), it was too late to the market to establish itself.
SPOT watches were discontinued in 2008. The MSN Direct service will continue to support the already sold SPOT smart watches, and other devices, only until December 31, 2011, when transmissions will cease. MSN Direct announces that service will be discontinued on January 1, 2012 due to reduced demand, since the increase of availability of Wi-Fi, Cellular, FM RDS and other digital networks.
Technically, the SPOT lives on via the open source product the Netduino — so while the hardware is all shelved, the software still lives on in some small way.
CISCO Flip Camera
For a while everyone had Flip cameras, until phones got good enough it seems. There were lots of players in that space — even Apple added video recording to their iPod models — but eventually Cisco killed off their purchase, and layoffs are happening now. Some details from the WSJ:

Cisco two years ago made a big splash by buying the maker of the Flip, the perfect-for-the-YouTube-age video camera that was then a tech geek accessory of choice. Now, Cisco is killing off the Flip. Today, the company announced it will “exit aspects of its consumer businesses,” including shutting down Flip.
Just a week ago, Cisco CEO John Chambers issued a mea culpa admitting to problems with slow decision making and lack of “discipline” at the networking company. Chambers signaled that change was coming, and apparently Flip was steamrolled to make way for change.
In 2009, Cisco agreed to acquire Flip maker Pure Digital Technology in a stock deal valued at around $590 million at the time. The deal was one of Cisco’s biggest forays into the fickle, low margin world of consumer electronics. At the time (and since), analysts questioned whether Cisco was making a mistake by getting into the fiercely competitive business with established giants such as Sony.

What a waste! There was recent NYTimes article about folks making a “digital camera kit” to teach how they work and inspire young folks to get excited about engineering. Cisco could do this today. Upload the firmware to GitHub, the BOM to a wiki, the CAD to Thingiverse, and watch a million camera projects flourish. Pictured above: BigShot, the prototype of a kit for building a digital camera. It was created by Shree K. Nayar, a professor of computer science at Columbia University.

Since someone is going to mention this in the comments, I’d like to see an open source Apple QuickTake too.
The list goes on and on, and that’s where you come in. I’ve left a few obvious ones like the Apple Newton (I think Palm is closer for a candidate), but what are yours? Post up your choice of products that no longer are made, and most importantly, why they should be open sourced and who this could help the most!


“Pictured above: BigShot, the prototype of a kit for building a digital camera. It was created by Shree K. Nayar, a professor of computer science at Columbia University.”
Not seeing the prototype picture in the post, just the Flip.
hit refresh, should be there…
Cool, thanks
Casio used to make scientific calculator watches. I’m sure their current DataBank watches have sufficient computational horsepower to allow them to do that again – or any of a number of other functions. I’d really like to see Casio make a firmware-upgradable version of the DataBanks so it could be programmed to be a scientific calculator again (especially using RPN for us older HP diehards) as well as a huge range of other wrist apps.
Yes, my Android phone is more powerful and flexible but it’s not water resistant or rugged enough for many uses. A watch can be and is.
good one!
Loved my Casio scientific calculator watch, was indecisive when they went on sale as closeout, didn’t buy one and then when mine died and Casio wouldn’t fix it any more, kicked myself for my indecision. It was always there and always right.
How about all the code from the old arcade games, so MAME users don’t have to feel like criminals? (Of course, there could still be copyright issues, e.g. can Nintendo release the code for Donkey Kong without losing their rights to Mario, which they still sell?)
they could also release certain levels or unreleased games.
You can release the code while maintaining ownership of the sprites – much like when Canabalt open sourced their game engine with the caveat that the actual game and artwork was still theirs:
http://blog.semisecretsoftware.com/nearly-25000-raised-for-charity-canabalt-goes
This reminds me great days of Nintendo , remember the time when there Super Mario Bros got hit they make 3 times more money than whole Hollywood
?now where is Nintendo I don’t think they are anywhere to X box or Sony PlayStation .
Javin
10 examples of find command in Unix
Actually, a significant amount of (now ancient) arcade games have been released as PD, which means that you can legally use them in projects. However, most of these games were released in the mid 70s, so it’s not like we’re playing pacman or space invaders or anything really cool but it’s a start.
As for the copyright issues, I doubt any current AAA gaming company would risk releasing their IPs because they could still make some money on the virtual consoles on the PS3, 360, or the Wii. so you won’t see too much in the way of old Namco/Bandai, Nintendo, Capcom, etc releasing their stuff.
The defunct companies could, but you have to track down the rights owners, who sold it to who, if they did, and etc. a lot of these people have fallen off the radar, or have been sold to companies who are also now defunct, so it’s a long and hard process. Ultimately worth it if you ask me, but that’s just the opinion of a retro gamer.
I cant agree more on the palm V I think I still have one or two of them and they would make great IR controls for projects among other things.
The flip is also a favorite from your list. I have one of those too.
yah – i think the palm v could have been the OLPC, or really close…
Another point of interest for me , if I have it in my situation that means that basically any one /could/ have it if they wanted. It means the amount of good PR made from a move like this can , and most likely will reach a wider audience. (just throwing that out for the guy or girl , it will probably be a girl, at aforementioned companies who wants to try to sell the idea) Once one person makes a robot controller from a PALM V it will be a domino effect.
I think Chris above makes a really great suggestion also of how to handle the legalities.
I still use a Palm C everyday! I have a little collection of PDAs (several Palms, V, E, 2x Tungsten 2 and also a Dell Axim)
I don’t think that Palm owns the Palm OS (Garnet OS), Palm spun of the OS group to make PalmSource. PalmSource was later Bought out by ACCSESS.
i’m pretty sure ACCESS isn’t doing anything with the old palm OS either. i tried to find anything on their site, not easy… http://www.access-company.com/home.html
The last use of it was/is on some Nokia Tablets, but they replaced the OS with the “Access Linux Platform” which looks like it might be open source and has a Garnet OS Emulator.
It’s a little silly, but Furbys!
furbys – excellent one. how about teddy ruxpin? other toys worth mentioning?
Timex Ironman USB Datalink watch: http://www.amazon.com/Timex-Mens-T53722-Ironman-Watch/dp/B000B545AA
Also — vacuum cleaner bags are seriously a racket. What happened to re-useable fabric bags?
good ones, i think watches – tech watches are all good. i had one of those timex watches as well as their “internet messenger” watch, which was a pager.
Deep Blue apparently lives on in two separate museums:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Blue_(chess_computer)#Aftermath
I’ve also heard gossip in the past that part of it was used as part of an airline booking system. Go figure.
if deep blue is responsible for anything in the airline business, they clearly need to open source it so we can learn from all the mistakes
By ‘part of it’, I meant the hardware.
Yep – a large part of Deep Blue at the Computer History Museum at least. Would be nice if IBM open-sourced the designs for these so-called ‘special purpose VLSI’ that apparently handled much of the brute-force computation.
I have tons of amazing old hardware (including a Quicktake 150 like the one above) that I imagine prototypes, schematics, firmware source codes must exist on a decaying old backup tape somewhere. A few times I’ve tracked down original engineers of products on the net – for instance the designer of an industrial digital scale generously posted his schematics and firmware source online, one of the engineers of the Fostex 2000 audio system, and the designer of some Kodak “Digital Cinema” FPGA boards boards bought on eBay.
A couple things I’d love to see open-sourced:
MovieBeam – Defunct movie rental service that sent movies over the air to the unit’s built-in 160GB hard drive. Linksys-built machine with a sexy brushed-aluminum case. Already runs Linux so not too hard to hack (used a slightly tweaked ReiserFS), HDMI HDTV out, has an ethernet port that was never enabled (unit may be perfect for Netflix streaming), optical/coax audio out, USB… Could be used for a number of applications.
Sony 400-disc Jukeboxes – I’ve picked up quite a few of these for cheap, just as disc enclosures. Spin up the number of disc that I need, door pops open and the disc pokes out. It would be nice to automate this in software but I suppose it’s possible using a Control-S interface. The firmware has no problem reading data DVDs so just being able to get this data to a PC anyhow would be awesome.
Cheap PMP watch – These go for well under $100 under eBay with 4GB of Flash and full-color OLED screen. I’m aware programmable watches exist (Timex Datalink, TI Chromos, etc. Have a Fossil Abacus) but I’ve yet to see one with a decent amount of flash and 65k color screen.
Discontinued MIDI gear (samplers, synths, mixing consoles) – Old digital mixing decks to act as remote control for software, old sampling keyboards internally “retrofitted” with PC boards softsynths and DAW features.
Tons of 2 megapixel cameras that nobody wants anymore can make great high-quality motion-sensing security cameras with custom firmware.
Just a few things..
I think the tough hurdle to get over is either the hubris or the lawyers of most of these companies. In the first case, they messed up development, lost a key member of the team or actually had some kind of product liability. I’m sure the thought of getting sued for a product that was shut down 5 years ago has some executives up at night shaking. So no go there. The other is the licensing. I think much like the people featured on the show “Hoarders”, the license and IP ‘experts’ (aka lawyers) have this horrible fear that somehow someday they might need whatever they’re giving away and open sourcing.
Perhaps herein lies the solution as well. Release all of the products that are getting shut down under a new moniker so that the past crimes and support issues can’t be brought back against the company (eh, a good prosecutor could tie it back to them if it was really hurting someone anyway, right?). This would also remove the need for copyright issues because it would be something like “Shallow Purple”, the open source super computer formerly known as Deep Blue.
All in all, I completely agree with the idea, Phil. I just hope some of the companies doing this recognize it could be really good for their brand and not just think of the bad things.
There’s a good reason why companies don’t do this: it costs money, and sometimes a lot. Someone (who’s paid for their time) has to go through the code/specs/etc to make sure there’s no un-distributable components (3rd-party libraries, proprietary technologies, etc), then package it up, upload it to some website, write about it, and then take on the liability of having it out there (“my OpenAIBO killed a cat!”).
but they just shelve it and/or or worse, a lot of it is just destroyed. surely there could be a way to say “it’s public domain, not supported”…
If it contains copyrighted code from a third party, they can’t release it as public domain. I’m a software engineer, and for the last 30 years, every project I’ve worked on has used copyrighted third-party code. Most of that third-party code is still for sale today (after having been updated many times, of course).
Plus, even if my old employers wanted to open up their code, they probably couldn’t find it anymore. The development systems, disks and tapes were discarded long ago.
Then, there’s arcade games, which I mentioned before. If they have recordings by voice actors (e.g. the old Star Wars and Star Trek games) they probably couldn’t be released into the public domain. Atari sells game packs for PCs that simulate the old games, so they wouldn’t want to make their old games public domain. Nintendo uses the same characters as in their old games, and they wouldn’t want to endanger their ownership of their characters.
It’s easy to criticize companies for not releasing their code. But there actually may be some very valid reasons for not doing it.
you said “been there done that” – what product or product did you try to open source?
keep in mind, people could start working towards making sure their works can be open sourced. this is why many many people are involved with open source hardware. for example, let’s say make or adafruit or sparkfun or chumby go out of business – anyone could come along and continue their work on many of the products, it’s open source hardware.
it’s easy to say something will not work, try to come up with ways *it could* work and what things *should* be open sourced that have been shelved.
None of the projects I’ve worked on has attempted to go open source – and the question never even came up with any of them. I’m just thinking back and realizing that it would’ve been really, really hard to accomplish.
In my projects, the company developed the code and started selling the product. When the product reached the end of its lifecycle, the company shut down development, moved the engineers to other projects, and put the development systems in mothballs. But it continued to sell the systems for a few more years. It continued to use the basic algorithms even longer, in subsequent products. By the time the company no longer has a financial interest in the hardware or software, there’s no one around who knows how to resuscitate the development environment (or even find the pieces), there’s almost no one who remembers the details of the system and even if they do, they don’t want to pass up an exciting new project to go back and work on it.
All these impediments are in addition to the third-party code issue I mentioned before.
In short, when companies refuse to open source something, I don’t think they’re being malicious or callous or even negligent.
I agree with you that it would be nice to have old stuff open-sourced. But I can understand why it’s not.
@rea5245 – which dead projects would you like see open sourced, and why?
The old HP calculators, especially the HP-15C and HP-16C. They have a great form factor, the 16C Programmer’s calculator had unique functionality, they were well-built.
As an alternative to open sourcing, HP could make its current 12C hackable, release specs for the key caps (so you could make your own) and improve the LCD display (either to make it a common superset of everything the 12C, 15C, and 16C needs, or to make it a high-res pixel-oriented display. Since both those options cost HP money, I guess I’d settle for publishing the specs on the LCD so an enterprising fan can replace it).
BTW, HP has made its 20B hackable.
Wouldn’t it be possible to do the same as was done for Blender ? I mean, to organise a Lobby group, negociate a price with a coproration and raise funds to get the rights of this products released to the community ?
It looks easy when you say it quickly i know, but that could be also an option don’t you think ?
in the counter example Compaq open sourced a credit card sized PDA more than a decade ago.
i think will happen, now that it’s easier to organize people and easier to raise funds later (kickstarter) we might see more examples that go this way..
What about starting now ?
A n initiative like this could have an interesting impact on the industry, like for example, the creation of de facto norms, and the incentive to work with a community for some corporations.
Also, I am sure that some people who were involved in the development of some of these products would love to still work on them and add more features to them.
What do you think if we start to make a list of all the products we need/want ?
See if there are open sourced versions of them and search for already existing alternatives, then work on completing the portfolio.
totally! the goal of this article is to start that list…
+1 for ricochet wireless (in a PocketPC no less) in the late 90′s. If only it could have evolved upward from then…
yah, i had one for a pocket pc too – remember the PCMCIA “sleeves” on the iPAQ? good times…
Oh yeah, tried to stuff any kind of laptop peripherals I could get in there, or micro hard drives!
Any music synth or processor that hasn’t been made in a while. Yamaha DX-7, Fairlight CMI, Synclavier, E-Mu SP-1200, the list goes on and on.
how does it work now? are the old synth’s licensed out for virtual versions or are they all mostly just dead?
Well, I think right now a lot of the older analog designs have been licensed out for so-called “modelling” synths and equipment. Thing about that is, it’s a weird legal area. I mean, technically they aren’t using the actual hardware design, they are using the _transfer function_ of that particular design. They’re basically licensing an equation. There are, of course, a whole lot of old synth designs which are available as models. But I’m sure that just as many are completely dead, and never to be heard from again.
The thing about old synths is that most of the schemos are already out in the world, because they were made available to customers or servicepeople. Google “Moog ladder filter” and you’ll find 1000′s of examples of Moog schematic sheets, and even partial or complete BOMs. They have effectively become public domain, though they still may technically be copyrighted or patented.
Music instrument manufacturers don’t seem to be nearly as sue-happy as their consumer electronics counterparts either, which may be why this info has proliferated so much. It would be nice to see them “go all the way” and just officially make at least some stuff open-source.
Just try to recreate a “Polivox” synthesizer ^_^
It is Great! For example, Rammstein use it, as well as many other famous musicians
http://analogik.com/articles/180/polivoks-russian-vintage-synth
here are schematics – http://www.ruskeys.net/pasp/polivoks/pasp.php#ps
If you want some translation, ask me ^_^
Yes johngineer, I am completely agree with your point.
It’s a nice theory, but ‘just’ open sourcing a previously closed product is often a legal minefield that can take years to sort out — been there, done that.
really? you said “been there, done that” – what is the example? can you provide what went wrong, what others could consider, what would work out?
that’s better than just discouraging words
The “intellectual property” issue is apparently quite real. Company X buys proprietary code from company Y, has a patent-portfolio cross-license deal with company Z, and a “proprietary membership” in industry group W, not to mention their own set of patents (some of which came from acquiring other-company V and THEIR cross-license agreements.) All that IP might have gone into a particular product. As long as X is solvent and the product is being sold, fees exchange hands (or whatever) and everyone is happy. Try to put the design and code for that product into open source, and you open up a can of worms that is probably big enough to keep an expensive team of lawyers employed for far too long. It’s a downside of “defensive patents” and such that isn’t seen as often as offensive use of patents (double-meaning intended.)
westfw – the easiest thing to do is to not add any value to this topic and just say isn’t not possible and come up with reasons. open source hardware is a good example of people preemptively dealing with this.
assuming there was not a “whole bunch of different legal/business reasons” what products that are no longer around would you like to see open sourced and why?
thanks-
I’d like to see a lot of the older camera and cell phone SW open-sourced, if only to the point of enabling things like CHDK, and the ability to repurpose old hardware instead of throwing it into a landfill. You said “preemptive”, which makes a lot of sense. Making a product open source after discontinuation probably requires a lot of forethought during the initial development cycle, and as a part of the business plan. It’s probably relatively expensive and difficult, and not very compatible with the “exciting” phases of most startups. I see SOME of the sort of care required happening as proprietary SW companies try to avoid viral OS license contamination in spite of needing OS technology in their products, but even that is somewhat rare.
Various stuff HAS made it to OS. DEC’s tops20 software, including OS, compilers, and more, was all made available. Some people run it using a modern PC as the “microcode engine.” Not exactly a shining example of the success of the model. In fact… HAS there ever been a “successful” conversion of any product into an open source project? (for instance, there is OS software for old PCs that would enabled them to do a lot of useful things, but there doesn’t seem to be big reduction in the number of PCs that are just thrown away at EOL.) A lot of products fail because, well, because they’re failures. Open source seems to work best if a project starts small and attracts developers who become interested, rather than having a load of SW dumped in a “here, someone needs to support me” fashion. There is a lot of “dead” open source out there. If companies are to OS dead products, there need to be some examples of good things happening after it has been done…
Perhaps we need a “clearing house” that is capable and trustworthy enough to dump a project on, and have it purified (all the “really proprietary” pieces removed), cleaned up, and evangelized so that it becomes a shining example of “open source as product placement” (“OpenFLIP is made possible by the generous donation of Cisco Systems.”) But I’m not sure how you’d fund such a company, and the level of expertise required would be pretty high…
Ramble, ramble…
westfw- these are all excellent, thank you.
BTW, this sort of stuff gets batted around by the engineers essentially all the time, but I’ve yet to see a good explanation from management/legal as to exactly why it can’t be done. Instead the concept just drops into a black hole of inaction. And then it’s just … gone. Engineers and Management either unemployed or on new projects, and you can’t even find someone to talk to about the issue. (shucks, there’s lots of code in current products that is un-owned to the extent that you can’t find someone to give you permission to fix it, if you find a bug. Not without an important customer.)
@Phil, the easiest way to move forward on these ideas is to recognize the barriers to execution then brainstorm ways of overcoming them. IP concerns (both patents and trade secrets), liability exposure, and the potential to incubate a future competitor are real concerns for companies. In the face of these, most companies will elect to ‘do nothing’. Recognizing that, it seems like there would need to be ways to offset those concerns through tax incentives and/or a NFP foundation that buys or acquires the IP (and liability) outright. The NFP could act as an intermediary that disentangles the IP through under an NDA before publicly releasing the source code/design.
“What if” is fun, but “What next” gets things done. Let’s start a NFP and start knocking on doors.
Patents == US only, then Open Source it elsewhere.
Not.
Well, one typical issue we’ve encountered is that part of the closed source code is copyrighted to an entity that no longer exists, be that through acquisition, bankruptcy or (in the case of inidividuals) death. At that point, you either have to hand it over to your company lawyers and wait a couple of years for them to sort it out, or persuade management to let you spend time reverse engineering some or all of the parts of the now-dead product that you can’t toss over the wall as-is.
The epic example of this was the freeing of Berkeley Unix from AT&T – http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html – which still didn’t stop SCO from spending years trying to prove that it owned all versions of Unix.
I’m not sure the Apple Shit-take really qualifies, wasn’t it just an awful camera?
well, i thought it would be a good one since it’s a low end camera now – it could be kit-ized to learn from.
How about the BeBox and BeOS? The original Be hardware was originally intended to attract geeks and tinkerers with its “geek port”, MIDI ports, and sort-of-realtime OS. I think Palm ended up owning the OS.
Re music synths: a lot of the code for the Buchla 700 digital synth has been made public at http://users.ece.gatech.edu/~lanterma/buchla700/. It’s 25 year old technology, but the possibilities for a modern open-source hardware equivalent that won’t have the 700′s display flakiness and thermal issues are terrific. You could use an Arduino Mega for the front end, a Beagleboard or Atom mini-ITX board for the general-purpose computer, and maybe the Freescale Symphony SoundBite for basic DSP and analog I/O. If anybody wants to go down that road, count me in on the software side…
I think the open source version of BeOS is Haiku.
Yeah, but that’s mostly reverse engineering from docs, header files, and open source code known to have been used by Be. They’re trying to maintain binary compatibility with code that died with Be, which is a good (bad) illustration of the problem PT’s writing about.
it is NOT a version of original BeOS
It is completely new recreation which is compatible with original
I think it makes sense when you open source discontinued product some one will pick up and start to clean it up
Vijay
http://www.rupees4gigs.com
Yeah you are right instead of killing the product and technology it’s better option to open source so that some research will carry out may be they come with handy compare to previous one.It’s like giving opportunity for others to learn from their mistake.
I always wished the Indrema’s UI and SDK had been open sourced. I’ve never heard of anything being done with them over the years.
The Atari Jaguar. I’m not sure it’s considered open source already since I’ve been reading about people making games for it but I really liked it when it came out in 93.
The Atari Jaguar is considered open. The commented BIOS source is available and even the private keys for encryption are known. The main problem is that none of it is well organized. Hasbro did release the rights, though, and with some searching you can find the letter that says so. Start here: “http://www.hillsoftware.com/?page_id=14″ for docs and tools.
SPOT is actually still alive even at Microsoft. It is called .NET Micro Framework
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/netmf/default.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Micro_Framework
It is great technology and hopefully they will kill it and open source it – because it doesn’t seem to ever take off, although you see these guys exhibiting at conferences year after year.